Women Leading Tech: Outfit’s Ash Ivory On The Power Of Trust
While the 2021 Women Leading Tech awards have been and gone, at B&T we are always looking to celebrate the brilliant women leading the tech industry.
Ash Ivory is Outfit’s head of product and spoke to B&T about getting women into product design, leading the next generation of tech, and the joys of motorbikes.
B&T: How has the last year transformed your professional life?
AI: There’s been a lot going on at Outfit. Not super recently, but it’s definitely impacted us a lot, we received our second fundraise early in 2020. So that’s meant some really good things at Outfit. I’ve been able to expand the product team, which is pretty cool. We were running quite lean for a while there – there were only two of us! And there are now nine of us across various different disciplines in product.
That’s been something that has transformed my role at Outfit, obviously getting off the tools and more guiding the team, setting up more structured ways of working, and helping them make decisions that way has been extremely rewarding
Obviously [we’ve dealt with] the typical COVID stuff too. We’ve learned to work well remotely. And that has pushed us to check in with each other quite regularly. It’s really made me realise what’s needed to support people holistically. Working with different personalities, not everyone’s forthcoming about how they’re feeling so just making sure that I’m adapting my management style for the different people in my team.
We onboarded many of the team during COVID and that has been an interesting process. It was the first time I have personally onboarded a new hire remotely, and it’s really different. It was challenging to try and indoctrinate new starters without the usual office atmosphere that they get when they are walking into their new office for the first few weeks. Thinking creatively about some of the important activities we usually do in the first week was challenging but rewarding too!
They have really been the big things for us, and we’ve grown quite substantially. We moved into a new space, which meant we had little things like new desks and more space for each other. Towards the end of the year, prior to last year, we were really jammed in an office growing quite rapidly and almost sitting on top of each other.
Seeing people settle in the new space was really lovely as well. It’s been a lot of hard work to get here. So sometimes you forget to stop and just celebrate those little wins.
So you’re back in the office now?
Yeah, we’re back in the office. We have definitely adopted a work-from-home policy as well, because of COVID. I think the really interesting thing is that you would think people would be really desperate to implement working from home most days a week, but we found that most of the teams are definitely guiding themselves with the right balance. So as much as the team is free to work from home for quite a few days, I tend to find a lot of them in the office because they just want that interaction. It’s a lot easier to collaborate when you’re in the same office, and we’ve got all these wonderful meeting rooms now so you can jump in and collaborate together rather than having to get on a video call as the default.
It’s emphasized the right things. I think getting work done when you’re at home is really great when you just need to knuckle down. But if you really need to be in the office collaborating, you’ve definitely got that option as well.
Working in tech, how do you ensure screen-free time?
It’s tricky. It’s really, really tricky! I am a pretty avid motorcyclist, so I commute to and from work on my bike every day, which is a good time to have that reset.
A lot of our team catches public transport, and they’re on their emails quite early because it’s an easy thing to do while you are commuting. I’m fortunate where I can’t just jump on my phone while riding my motorcycle, so that’s a really important part of my screen-free time. And on weekends as well, getting out and away from screens. I really like doing outdoor stuff like hiking and riding my bike. I really want to get out and do some moto camping this season as well. So, for me, that’s how I switch off.
I recently went and did a little leather-making workshop, which was a lot of fun. We made a cardholder and I’m keen to grow my skills and try a few more challenging items like a pouch for my motorcycle.
I also run an Instagram account where I take photos of my motorbike, and film with my drone and just generally faff about as well. So although it’s a different screen, I think it’s at least unlocking a slightly different part of my brain.
What do you think are the biggest issues in terms of gender facing the tech industry right now?
I’ve done a few talks recently, and one mentoring program I’ve signed up for is a mentoring program called Assisterhood organised by Publicis. It’s interesting because I don’t think there’s a shortage of women in the advertising world. But I think I was the only mentor there that was really from tech, which I’ve found to be quite a common thing and something I’m actively trying to change.
I think that absolutely speaks to the gender split that happens especially in tech. Traditionally I think you’re talking about development and product, as you know, those are core tech functions. And I think one thing that stops a lot of young girls is that they don’t really identify with the types of role models that they may see in tech roles. So I’m sure a lot of young girls don’t really know who some of the amazing tech women are, or even women that surround those industries. The role models aren’t visible to young girls which makes it easy. for them to shy away from the types of classes that may get them interested in coding and technology.
My wife actually works for a company that helps kids to learn how to code. I think initiatives like that are helping young girls get into coding a little bit more because they don’t just market it at young boys – it’s for all kids! There’s a range of things that they teach. I think those entry points are hopefully making the tech world a little bit more accessible and approachable for young girls. They tend to self-qualify themselves out, there are some stats around that of how many girls end up kind of tapping out quite early from things like STEM because they don’t think they belong.
Even for myself, I didn’t start out with the idea that I would go into product. I initially was going to study fine art, being creative, is quite welcoming to women. I ended up studying graphic design, and then marketing which is also quite female led. So to transition over to product only happened because of the opportunity showing up in front of me.
I did various roles and found the product space just through, working and having the experience at Outfit and knowing what features were needed for our users. I think I’m a little bit of a different case to how a lot of women want to get into tech. I think it’s generally a far more deliberate move, especially women engineers. They’ve really got to put their mind to it.
Tech has historically been really dominated by male leaders. How can businesses better support leaders that aren’t men?
They can just hire them! That’s an interesting question, because I think there’s some really obvious answers. Being aware of how they’re recruiting, where they’re looking, how they’re approaching the market.
I think if you’re going through traditional channels, you’re probably going to get quite a lot of male candidates. And I think you maybe [need to] think a little bit differently about where women who would suit the role would be, rather than hoping that they will come to you.
Going back to the mentor night I went to, there were a lot of young girls there that were really keen on product. They were going to this night that was put on by Publicis, because they’re wanting that strong female mentorship. It doesn’t necessarily mean they want to go into a creative or agency career. So I think getting people like me involved in those things [is] really great [because] they’re trying to diversify the types of women that they’re exposing their mentees to.
But also, it’s our job to go out and make sure that we are representing our position in the community and involving ourselves in a lot of those young foundations that are coming up. [For example] there’s Code Like A Girl – there’s so many that we can be involved in. So I think it’s bringing attention to ourselves that way. And thinking outside the box, when we’re trying to find women leaders. They’re not always going to come from a traditional product background and a lot of people don’t in general as well. So finding, you know, people that we think might be adaptable to product or tech, in general, is a clever way to extend women’s leadership.
Diversity in general, I think, is a really important thing for tech companies to focus on. Because it’s not just about having women represented at the leadership table. It’s about diversity across every department and understanding that everyone’s got very unique and different intersectionality. That’s really important when you’re creating a product, to be mindful of those different points of view. I think the tech industry has fallen victim to men sort of calling the shots and so it’s nice to see that diversity and inclusion is so high on so many lists.
We’re seeing it a lot when we go out for tenders, that a lot of companies are really mindful of that. They ask us to provide evidence or talk about what we’re doing in that space as well. And all in all, I think we’ve got a pretty good mix – we can always do better, but we’re quite mindful. Like we were talking about before, that just comes from going out and putting trust in women to step up and take the challenge on, and that inevitably helps you see other women or other people from diverse backgrounds.
What do you think makes for the successful foundations of leadership?
Trust. With questions like this, you can get carried away and before you know it, you just list all of the really amazing characteristics of any type of successful person, but I think trust is really, really important.
Trust in your team, trust from your leader or those that are senior to you, trusting yourself and your gut. I think trust is the thing that’s served me in a lot of roles, but also when it’s not there, I really feel it.
Bruce [Stronge], our CEO, and founder has put a lot of trust in me over the years. That’s made me really want to make the right decisions for Outfit and serve in my role well. Had he not put that trust in me so early, I don’t think I would have excelled or worked as hard as I have, knowing that he’s got my back, and I’ve been trusted with some really important decisions.
I did a little bit of reading on teams a while ago, as well, and I was reading Google have done a lot of different studies. They did one particular study into what makes a good team and they studied various teams, different levels, different people, they made sure they covered the gamut. And out of that study, that was one of the things that really resonated as well. If a team has trust and they don’t succeed, they fail in a safe way together. With my experience at Outfit that really resonated with me as well. I definitely felt that trust is one thing that’s really gotten me through.
In startups you’re failing all the time and I think it’s where the old adage of fail fast comes in. It’s a bit contrived now, and I think too many people reach for it when they’ve just been a little bit lazy or not thought something through. But, inevitably you will fail, even if you’ve given it absolutely everything you’ve got. So feeling safe to do that a lot of the time will be the kickstarter for something else really, really great that you might stumble on.
Thank you to our Women Leading Tech sponsors:
Latest News
‘Blair Is Mr Happy, Beau Is Mr Dopey, I’m Mr Grumpy’ – Top Gear Australia Hosts Reveal What It Was Really Like Filming
Top Gear features the cars you could never afford to drive. It's a bit like the bogan's Gourmet Traveller, really.
Nine’s Total TV Sales Lead Richard Hunwick To Step Down
Nine's Richard Hunwick calls time after 15 years. Hoping for a last trip to the Olympics before getting the gold watch.
Yahoo Academy Culminates With Pitch-Off For Musicians Making A Difference With Trip To Cannes In Cairns On The Line
B&T happy to support the Musicians Making A Difference initiative. Particularly any that encourages more Watusi.
TV Ratings 16/5/24: Nearly 2 Million Tune In To See Sky Blues Win In Women’s State Of Origin
B&T does make jokes about the Budget reply speech but, to his credit, Mr Potato Head rated OK last night.
Binge Launches “Scene:Scents” Sensory Entertainment Campaign, Via Thinkerbell
There's now scented candles to pair with BINGE shows. We're hoping Rex Hunt's Fishing Adventures doesn't hear about it.
Jolt Partners With Veridooh For Verification Of Its EV Charger Placements In UK
Although B&T's an avid supporter of EV cars, we'd definitely miss the smell of petrol and the service station pie.
Nine Ad Manager Named Principal Sponsor Of CommBank SmallBiz Week
CommBank's SmallBiz Week is coming to Melbourne on the 29-30 May. B&T's as confused as you are on how that's a week.
Pet Circle & Seven Communications Partner On “Pawtition” To Get Pets On Public Transport
B&T's concerned about the fleas, urine & faeces on public transport - and that's just from fellow passengers!
‘A Win-Win’ – How The Matildas Helped CommBank Become A ‘Globally Iconic Brand’ For The First Time
CommBank's sponsorship of the Matildas is a sport marketing masterclass. The opposite to Nick Kyrgios & his sponsors.
VML Australia Dominates The One Show With 5 Gold Pencils
VML Australia flying the flag at the One Show Awards in New York. Not that we need more flag waving at the moment.
Social Soup: Consumers Looking For “Informative” Not “Funny” Social Content When Making Buying Decisions
In a further blow to ventriloquism everywhere, new research says consumers prefer information over funny videos.
GIO Unveils New “Protect Precious” Brand Positioning & Campaign, Via Ogilvy
Insurer asks what's precious in our lives in new work. Which is better than asking is this business highly flammable.
Digitas & Heckler Singapore Launch Animated Symphony For Riot Game’s Valorant Champions Tour Pacific
Stony silence between you and the graphic arts team at Friday drinks? This gaming news could be an ice breaker.
Wavemaker Global CEO Toby Jenner Appointed Global President, GroupM Clients
Wavemaker’s Toby Jenner continues his career trajectory. But is it enough to move him up to the first class lounge?
Fast 10: Mindshare Head Honcho Maria Grivas On Her “Resting Smiling Face”
Mindshare is having a very fruitful 2024. Here, CEO Maria Grivas reveals her fertilisers & pruning tips to success.
Real Home Care Clients & Staff Star In New HammondCare Campaign
Aged care commercial uses real life clients & staff. B&T has not contacted the actor's union for comment.
Mutinex’s Henry Innis: “I’m Imperfect As A Leader”
Mutinex is being touted as one of the hottest start-ups in the land. And we don't mean that in an Elizabeth Holmes way.
Slew Of Senior Hires At Sparro by Brainlabs & Jack Nimble
B&T loves to report new hires as it shows the healthy state of the industry. That and cocaine usage at work functions.
Initiative’s Fein, Geer, Colter To Depart For Accenture Song
As you read first in B&T, there are significant comings-and-goings at Initiative. Though mainly goings, if we're honest.
Pizza Hut Fined $2.5m For Spamming Customers
To be honest, if you're going to spam customers, cheap pizza deals is probably on the low side of the dodgy scale.
Jetstar & Qantas Perception Ratings Soar After Bonza Cancelled Flights, YouGov Finds
This poll is further proof nothing builds a positive brand image like your competitor monumentally f@cking up.
Pedigree Launches AI-Powered Ad Initiative To Give All Dogs A Home, Via Colenso BBDO & Nexus Studios
B&T encourages this dog adoption initiative. And that's despite us barely being able to look after our own selves.
Apparent Launches “All Heart, No hassle” Integrated Campaign For Flight Centre’s Corporate Traveller
Apparent charged with Flight Centre's Corporate Traveller creative. Has avoided any gags about stolen hotel bathrobes.
South African Tourism CMO: ‘We Want Consumers To Experience SA Through The Eyes Of A Child’
B&T chats with South African tourism's Aussie CMO. Admittedly, we had to quickly rectify our Barossa Valley questions.
Market Research Firm TRA Names KFC’s “Look On the Fried Side Of Life” As Australia’s Favourite Ad
A poll of everyday Aussies has revealed our favourite ads. And it'll make difficult reading for the Harvey Norman team.
‘A Big, Big Step In The Right Direction’: Media Buyers React To News Corp’s D_Coded
There was a universal thumbs up for News' D_Coded event. Although there were calls for glitter bombs at the finale.
CommBank Announced As Presenting Partner Of Vogue Codes 2024
Vogue Codes is a top initiative encouraging women into STEM-based careers. All while wearing Jimmy Choos, apparently.
Brad Garbutt Joins OMA As Marketing Lead
Seasoned adlander Garbutt joins the outdoor association. Says he's got the DOOH down pat, but working on the PDOOH.
TV Ratings 15/5/24: Gruen Pulls A Crowd For Aunty As It Enters 16th Season
Although B&T typically shuns predictions, we're expecting big numbers for Peter Dutton's Budget reply speech tonight.
D_Coded panel: ‘If You Are A Marketer Handling Data And Haven’t Spoken To Legal, You’re In Trouble’
This fiery panel was a highlight of Tuesday's D_Coded event. Not that it spilled out into the carpark.
SBS Audio Campaign Tells The Stories Of New Australians, With Multilingual Content Offerings To Assist Migrants
SBS Audio has launched a new marketing campaign for its ‘Australia Explained’ service which supports new migrants to successfully navigate life in Australia and achieve a greater sense of belonging and social cohesion. SBS’s flagship service for new migrants, Australia explained, has launched a multi-platform marketing campaign that reaches into the heart of the migrant […]
Tracker App Launches, Promising Consumers A Read On Brand’s & Products Sustainability Chops
Shoppers can now get access to sustainability information at their fingertips through Tracker, a first-of-its-kind mobile app. The Tracker app centralises sustainability data into a single, easy-to-understand format, helping shoppers make informed choices about the brands and products they support. Shoppers can simply scan the barcode of their favourite supermarket, chemist or department store item […]
Channel Factory Expands Team Across Australia & New Zealand By 20%
Social media agency Channel Factory announces a significant lift in staff numbers. Doesn't thank Tuesday's Budget.
Jaywing Extends Strategy Team Appointing Fran Martin As Senior Brand Strategist
As is often said, you can never have too much strategy. Same can't be said of programmatic & AI.
Tourism Tasmania Taps Broadsheet For Latest “Off Season” Campaign Iteration
Do you like to drape yourself in sheepskin, flannelette & weird, wooly hats? Tasmania in winter is for you.
Netball WA Appoints 303 MullenLowe As Brand Strategy partner
Netball WA appoints 303 MullenLowe for its brand strategy. Any mention of Gina also now strictly forbidden.